Some ideas and stuff

[thethirdwonder]

I’ve been doing some thinking, on how to make my RBY team better. I’m trying to get the perfect RBY team for myself and my current one is this.

Tauros (Sweepy) - Body slam, Hyper beam, Earthquake, Blizzard
HP 332, ATK 277, DEF 267, SPD 281, SPE 217 (High DVS, All vitamins, slight training)

Chansey (Luck) - Thunder wave, Ice beam, Thunderbolt, Softboiled
HP 703, ATK 100, DEF 108, SPD 194, SPE 308 (High DVS, Maxed out stats)

Zapdos (Storm) - Thunder wave, Thunderbolt, Drill peck, Light screen
HP 383, ATK 278, DEF 260, SPD 294, SPE 344 (High DVS, Maxed out stats)

Rhydon (Stompy) - Earthquake, Rock slide, Surf, Body slam
HP 409, ATK 358, DEF 330, SPD 176, SPE 184 (High DVS, Maxed out stats)

Alakazam (Blaine) - Psychic, Thunder wave, Seismic toss, Recover
HP 290, ATK 159, DEF 165, SPD 311, SPE 345 (High DVS, All vitamins)

Starmie (Bubbles) - Thunder wave, Surf, Ice beam, Thunderbolt
HP 323, ATK 248, DEF 268, SPD 320, SPE 298 (High DVS, Maxed out stats) (I actually have one with perfect stats except for attack, so eventually I’ll have a Starmie with that extra 8 speed)

It fares quite well. I can consistently beat my sister (whom is also very good and has a team of super powerhouses) and I can beat Stadium with no troubles. But I still feel my team could be better. So I was doing some research and I think I’ve stumbled over a few things that might help you guys/girls out too. Here’s my movesets and thoughts for standards.

RAICHU vs ZAPDOS / JOLTEON

Standard Raichu - Thunder wave, Thunderbolt, Surf, Seismic toss
My Raichu - Thunder wave, Thunderbolt, Surf, Seismic toss

Now, Raichu may be used frequently because it can take out Rhydon nearly all the time, and Golem all the time. But so what. After that, Raichu is free and can begin bolting everything, for much less damage then Zapdos and Jolteon. Not to mention Raichu still has much lower defense, so Tauros and Snorlax can take it down easier then the other two. Zapdos and Jolteon are more powerful and you should leave dealing with Grounds to Starmie.

Raichu doesn’t make the cut.

SANDSLASH vs RHYDON / GOLEM

Standard Sandslash - Earthquake, Rock slide, Swords dance, Body slam/Hyper beam
My Sandslash - Earthquake, Rock slide, Body slam, Slash

Sandslash is similar to Raichu, chosen to get rid of the Rock type. But who said being Rock was bad? Okay let’s do some thinking here.

Getting hit by Starmie’s Surf

Sandslash - Maximum 99% (348 damage)
Golem - Maximum 100% (697 damage)
Rhydon - Maximum 100% (1027 damage)

Okay, so it survives Starmie’s Surf, so it passes and can do some extra before fainting.

Next, let’s see how Sandslash gets rid of Zapdos, which is what a Ground is essentially for.

Attacking Zapdos
Sandslash - Maximum 37% (144 damage)
Golem - Maximum 60% (230 damage)
Rhydon - Maximum 67% (258 damage)

Ouch, only 37%? That means if you’re lucky, Sandslash will beat Zapdos in 3 hits. That’s not good.

Defending Zapdos’ Drill peck
Sandslash - Maximum 25% (91 damage)
Golem - Maximum 11% (40 damage)
Rhydon - Maximum 10% (42 damage)

Wow, Sandslash takes decent damage from Zapdos too. And depending on how often Rock slide wants to hit, Zapdos might actually BEAT Sandslash. That’s just sad. Sandslash gets passed. Now while we’re at it, let’s compare Golem and Rhydon. Golem has higher defense, speed, special and has attack still high enough to beat Zapdos in 2 hits. The difference is that Rhydon has more HP and learns Explosion. Wait a minute, isn’t that Golem? Well, it may appear that Golem is better then Rhydon. There’s still battling others like Tauros and Snorlax, so let’s go through them too.

Earthquaking Tauros
Golem - Maximum 40% (142 damage)
Rhydon - Maximum 45% (159 damage)

Both will take the same amount of hits, even if Golem gets minimum hits (34%). Next is Snorlax.

Earthquaking Snorlax
Golem - Maximum 34% (178 damage)
Rhydon - Maximum 38% (200 damage)

This one gives Rhydon the advantage. Rhydon is more likely to take out Snorlax in 3 hits, and Golem is almost guaranteed to take 4.

There’s so many possibilities and variables, but overall Golem is looking better then Rhydon. The HP and the extra attack are what come into play, but generally, Golem will do you a little bit better.

PERSIAN

Standard Persian - Slash, Body slam, Hyper beam, Bubblebeam (Or something like that)
My Persian - Slash, Bubblebeam, Hyper beam, Substitute

Persian is under used, but packs a powerful punch with Slash. Compared to Tauros, It only has 10 speed on it and much lower stats for everything else. That alone is enough to put Persian out of business, but let’s compare how they do on Alakazam.

Attacking Alakazam
Persian’s Slash - Maximum 73% (229 damage)
Tauros’ Body slam - Maximum 55% (172 damage)

Tauros’ Body slam may be weaker, but it can still usually take out Alakazam in 2 shots, also possibly paralyzing or getting critical. However, if Alakazam is using Reflect, Persian’s Slash is much better. Still, with much lower stats, Persian doesn’t cut it.

ALAKAZAM

Standard Alakazam - Psychic, Thunder wave, Recover, Seismic toss
My Alakazam - Psychic, Thunder wave, Recover, Seismic toss

This isn’t being compared to anything, but just a thought. Why not swap Seismic toss for Counter? Okay, so Psychic isn’t as good on other Psyshic types, but if the opponent will Recover or Softboiled, wouldn’t it be best to at least try for either a critical hit or lowering special, or better yet, switch? Seismic toss, there is no hope. Now with Counter, it may be the solution to beating Tauros and Snorlax. Let’s try it out.

Defending against Body slam
Tauros - Maximum 55% (172 damage)
Snorlax - Maximum 58% (184 damage)

Would Counter be good against Body slam? It probably would be good. If you took Tauros’ Body slam and then Counter, you’d leave it with around 20 HP left, and then you can finish it off with Psychic. With Snorlax, it’s just a big hit, since Snorlax has tons of HP. Why is Counter bad then? Generally you will (or have) paralyzed them and Counter may fail. On top, if their Body slam’s get critical or stroke luck by fully paralyzing you, it may have been better off to use Psychic. Let’s check Hyper beam.


Defending against Hyper beam
Tauros - Maximum 97% (302 damage)
Snorlax - Maximum 100% (322 damage)

With Hyper beam, Snorlax may KO you, but on the plus side, you will Counter KO both of them. This makes Counter better. That would be a very sneaky way to take out the Normals and then you’re pretty much safe from every other standard because Alakazam is faster then them all and can also Recover if you get extra time for you.

My new Alakazam - Psychic, Thunder wave, Counter, Recover

Try it out.

GENGAR vs EXEGGUTOR vs JYNX

There’s often a dispute on which is the best sleeper overall. Well let’s go over some facts. Gengar is the fastest, but has the least accurate. Jynx is the next fastest and tied with the most accurate one (No, I’m not including Spore). Exeggutor is the slowest, but still has Sleep powder. Next is what you do afterwards. Gengar can Confuse, which works wether the opponent switches or not. Jynx gets to attack, or try to paralyze the switch in. Exeggutor gets Stun Spore, but the opponent may be smart and stay in. Now is the rest of the pokemon. Gengar has good power and Explosion, but gets beaten by most of the standards. Jynx has low defense, but fares well against the other standards. Exeggutor is the toughest one, but has many weaknesses.

Going over all of the above, Jynx is looking like the best one. Exeggutor gets to Sleep and Stun, but most people will keep their sleeping one out, predicting Exeggutor. Gengar has the nicest after effects, but again, 60% is not as reliable as the other moves. I would say Jynx is the best, but Exeggutor can probably cause the most damage afterwards, as well as Exploding. If you are using your sleeper mostly for actually putting the opponent to sleep, use Jynx.

TAUROS

Standard Tauros - Body slam, Hyper beam, Earthquake, Blizzard
My Tauros - Body slam, Hyper beam, Earthquake, Blizzard

This is a moveset change. Looking at the moves, they all server their purpose. However, how often do you use Earthquake? Earthquake hits super effective on Jolteon and Gengar (which are both fairly rare in standard matches) and helps finish off Rhydon and Golem. I think Earthquake could be replaced, as it’s not that beneficial. Hmm.......The only move that might be worth using is Double edge. Not happening. Okay, so Earthquake gets to stay. Maybe Snorlax will be different though...

STARMIE

Standard Starmie - Thunder wave, Recover, Thunderbolt / Blizzard / Surf
My Starmie - Thunder wave, Surf, Thunderbolt, Blizzard

I think Recover isn’t as handy as most people say. First off though, let’s look at each attack Starmie does.

Psychic - Gengar, Chansey
Blizzard - Zapdos, Exeggutor, Dragonite
Surf - Alakazam, Golem, Rhydon, Tauros, Snorlax, Jolteon, Jynx, Raichu
Thunderbolt - Articuno, Starmie, Slowbro, Lapras

Psychic is looking the least useful, as you usually can’t beat Chansey anyways, and Gengar can get beaten by the other standards. Okay, so Psychic is gone. If you get rid of Blizzard, you can’t beat both of your weaknesses and Draognite. That’s okay, just switch. As for Thunderbolt and Surf, they’re very handy to have and do the most on the most. Therefore if you use a Recover Starmie use this instead.

Surf, Thunderbolt, Thunder wave, Recover

Now many would argue that Blizzard can just be used on Rhydon and Golem instead of Surf. If you do that though, you can’t KO them in one shot and their Earthquakes hurt. Surf is also Starmie’s better STAB move, so it’s nice against most of the other standards.

Now dealing with Recover. Looking at what attacks beat what, it looks very effective to give Starmie Recover, since Blizzard is worth losing. But with Starmie’s 323 HP, you only heal 162 HP. Let’s see what that would be helpful for.

Recover against - Alakazam, Rhydon, Golem, Slowbro, Tauros, Jynx, Articuno
Don’t Recover against - Gengar, Chansey, Zapdos, Exeggutor, Snorlax, Jolteon, Raichu, Starmie

So about half the standards, it’s effective to Recover. Looking at the Recover against list, there are quite a few that pop up. You can Recover repeatedly and you’ll have at least 50% health, so that works. But while you’re sitting there Recovering, they have a chance to get a critical hit, and screw you over. However, with Starmie’s Thunder wave, you could Recover and hope for a fully paralysis and that would give you a big opening. Then again, Starmie could be paralyzed too and you’ll have to risk that everytime you try to Recover.

I think Recover has very strong points on why it should be used on Starmie, but I believe my Starmie’s moveset is better. Although Blizzard may be effective against less then Recover, you have to avoid many luck based conditions. Therefore, my Starmie has Thunder wave, Blizzard, Thunderbolt and Surf.

SNORLAX

As mentioned earlier, Tauros doesn’t seem to benefit much from Earthquake, but Snorlax as a much wider moveset. Let’s do a move check with Snorlax.

Earthquake - Raichu, Jolteon, Gengar, Rhydon, Golem
Rock slide - Zapdos, Articuno, Lapras, Dragonite
Body slam - Tauros, Snorlax, Slowbro, Starmie, Exeggutor, Chansey, Alakazam, Jynx

Body slam is necessary and Earthquake has many uses. But, Jolteon and Raichu don’t appear that frequently and Surf is better against Rhydon and Golem. As for Gengar, well that’s one of the losses. So let’s see this new moveset.

Body slam, Surf, Rock slide / Hyper beam / Selfdestruct

With Surf, you still can’t KO Golem and Rhydon, but you’ll do much more then Earthquake. If the opponent switches though, Surf is guaranteed to do damage, while Earthquake may miss on the flyers. Then again, if the opponent switches to a Water, or most of anything else Earthquake will do more then Surf. That evens it a bit.

Surf - Rhydon, Golem, Zapdos, Articuno, Dragonite
Earthquake - Raichu, Jolteon, Gengar, Lapras, Tauros, Snorlax, Slowbro, Starmie, Exeggutor, Chansey, Alakazam, Jynx

Earthquake is much more effective against more. But if you fought those, isn’t it usually better to use Body slam anyways? Maybe not on Jolteon, Raichu and Gengar though.

My final decision. If you’re more worried about Golem and Rhydon, replace Earthquake with Surf. If you deal with Jolteon, Raichu and Gengar more, as well as being more cautious on switches, stick to Earthquake. Personally, I’m changing over.

ARTICUNO

Articuno isn’t quite standard because of it’s bad movepool. We have to find something useful for Articuno...hopefully.

Reflect, Agility, Blizzard, Ice beam, Mimic, Fly, Sky attack, Hyper beam

Looking at the above, you can pass on all the physical moves. Flying moves aren’t good against most standards (besides Exeggutor and the Waters) and Hyper beam is garbage.

Looks like it may be something like this.

Blizzard, Ice beam, Reflect, Agility

But hmm, what about Mimic? If you got the best possibility which would be Starmie’s Thunderbolt, you’d be guaranteed a two turn KO, but Starmie would beat you by then. If you got Surf, you could deal with Golem and Rhydon, to cover Blizzard’s slight inaccuracy. Maybe Sleep powder or Lovely kiss from Exeggutor or Jynx? Mimic doesn’t look so good, but it might just work if you’re lucky. Or maybe just don’t use Articuno.

DRAGONITE

I think Dragonite is the most overrated standard. Not to pick sides though, as I’ve had one for RBY and currently in GSC, but let’s see what it can do. It has 298 special, but it doesn’t get STAB moves, which are almost essential. 366 attack is nice, but Tauros and Snorlax are better at using Normal moves. Dragonite also has that nasty weakness to Ice. How about seeing who it can beat (generally).

Beats - Exeggutor, Raichu, Gengar, Golem, Rhydon
Iffy - Zapdos, Alakazam, Snorlax
Loses - Jolteon, Lapras, Jynx, Starmie, Tauros, Slowbro, Articuno, Chansey

Dragonite’s odds aren’t looking nice. The one’s Dragonite can consistently beat also take good chunks out of Dragonite’s HP. Dragonite does have a nice moveset though, and can be a potential sweeper with Surf, Blizzard, Thunderbolt and Body slam, with Thunder wave possiblt in there somewhere. If it’s allowed, Thunder wave and Wrap is a nice combo, and you only need to take one hit to get started. But then the opponent just switches off anyways. Maybe with Agility? But then if Dragonite does get knocked out, the opponent isn’t paralyzed. As a OHKO pokemon? Thunder wave, Agility, Horn drill, Surf. Not bad. Otherwise, Dragonite is only good for it’s stats.

JOLTEON

If Zapdos isn’t your Electric, Jolteon probably is. In comparison, Zapdos has better stats, except for speed. Jolteon actually gets some different moves though.

Jolteon

Thunderbolt - Gengar, Zapdos, Snorlax, Lapras, Starmie, Tauros, Slowbro, Articuno
Pin missile - Exeggutor, Alakazam, Jynx
Double kick - Raichu, Golem, Rhydon, Jolteon, Chansey

Zapdos

Thunderbolt - Zapdos, Snorlax, Lapras, Starmie, Tauros, Slowbro, Articuno, Raichu, Jolteon
Drill peck - Exeggutor, Alakazam, Jynx, Golem, Rhydon, Chansey

Drill peck is like grouping Pin missile and Double kick together. However, with Zapdos’ Drill peck, you don’t have to worry about missing, it’s STAB and has 50 extra attack power. Jolteon can hit the Rocks though, but you’re basically dead if you need to try that.

Next is the weaknesses. Zapdos has Ice and Rock, while Jolteon has Ground. Zapdos gets beaten by the same pokemon as Jolteon, but with the addition to the Ice and Waters, as well as possibly Tauros, Snorlax and Chansey. That doesn’t leave much for Zapdos to withstand, but at least it can take an Earthquake for another and has much more staying power then Jolteon. Jolteon also gets Focus Energy. It’s tricky to time it, but if you do, you’ll have constant criticals, which is very dangerous for the opponent. But, if the opponent switches to Rhydon or Golem, you have to switch and lose Focus energy or don’t switch and lose Jolteon. It would take about 4 critical Double kicks to take out Rhydon, and one Earthquake to beat Jolteon. So Focus energy doesn’t work. But, if you were able to beat their Ground early on, you could beat everything up as well as attacking first each time.

My Jolteon moveset - Thunder wave, Focus energy, Thunderbolt, Pin missile

So Zapdos should be used for raw power, and Jolteon used for more cautiousness. Jolteon’s 60 extra speed also goes beyond the main Water it’s used to beat anyway and do close to 80% with one Thunderbolt (with a 1 in 4 shot of getting a critical). Therefore, I think I am going to switch Zapdos to Jolteon.


And that’s a wrap. I covered everything I want to in close to ten pages of stuff, and I wrote all of it in around an hour (I’m very speedy ).

Here’s my old and new teams now.

Old
Alakazam - Psychic, Thunder wave, Recover, Seismic toss
Chansey - Thunder wave, Ice beam, Thunderbolt, Softboiled
Tauros - Body slam, Hyper beam, Blizzard, Earthquake
Rhydon - Earthquake, Rock slide, Surf, Body slam
Zapdos - Thunder wave, Thunderbolt, Drill peck, Light screen
Starmie - Thunder wave, Surf, Blizzard, Thunderbolt

New
Alakazam - Psychic, Thunder wave, Recover, Counter
Chansey - Thunder wave, Ice beam, Thunderbolt, Softboiled
Tauros - Body slam, Hyper beam, Blizzard, Earthquake
Golem - Earthquake, Rock slide, Body slam, Explosion
Jolteon - Thunder wave, Thunderbolt, Pin missile, Focus energy
Starmie - Thunder wave, Surf, Blizzard, Thunderbolt

I ask for your comments and suggestions on my ideas and my new team. And can someone also tell me the story about Wigglytuff and Mr.K? Thanks .

If you don’t reply, I’ll send people with Kinglers on to spread to you.

[thethirdwonder]

[Slayer]

Well, I like your new team.

[thethirdwonder]

I'm just not sure if Jolteon can live up to Zapdos' power, but I do like getting rid of the Ice weakness.

[GGFan]

Zapdos is ultimately better than Jolteon, it's weak to ice but Jolteon is much easier to counter.

[thethirdwonder]

I'm just thinking Jolt's Focus energy and speed would be good. I tried it but 2 problems happen.

1. If they switch to Golem/Rhydon, you basically have to switch, losing Focus energy.

2. If Jolteon gets paralyzed, it's garbage.


Okay, so that settles it, Zapdos > Jolteon.

What about CounterZam and Golem vs Rhydon? And while we're at it Tauros vs Snorlax.

[Slayer]

Well, lets see:

Tarous:
Pros: Fast, powerful, and able to hit a wide range of pokemon.
Cons: If paralyzed, its dead. Lower HP then Snorlex

Snorlax:
Pros: Powerful, able to take special attacks. High HP. Has a way to counter paralysis.
Cons: Slow, weak defense.

Just my view on the two. Depends on what you like best, though having both on the same team is better.

[thethirdwonder]

I’m still trying to make the best team possible. Here’s a more ideas.

As a sleeper, scrap Gengar, Jynx and Exeggutor. I’m starting to think Parasect is becoming a better choice.

Parasect is basically laughed at because it has a ton of weaknesses. But wait, let’s go over them.

Fire - Maybe Moltres.
Poison - Muk or Weezing? Yeah, right.
Flying - Zapdos, which is a big problem.
Rock - Rhydon and Golem, but neither will get a KO in one shot.
Ice - Big problem, but still can survive, except for very few.
Bug - No.

So Parasect can basically survive anything, so it can very likely Spore. So I’ve come up with a way to use it. Save it for later, don’t lead with it. After your first poke dies and the opponent has something fairly powerful out, send out Parasect. Use Spore after taking a hit, which you can survive. If the opponent switches, that’s even better because then Parasect can get out of there. Chances are the opponent will send out Zapdos. If they do, switch to your Ground. If they pick something with an Ice attack, switch to Starmie or an Ice type. You get the idea. So in that way you can use Spore safely and effectively.

But, there are still disadvantages. To use it and be able to save it, you’ll probably need both Starmie and Zapdos not just on your team, but also alive. It also works best right after one of your pokemon faint, which again can’t be Starmie and Zapdos (although they are often in the end turns of the game, so that’s not a big problem). On it’s own and attacking though, Parasect can’t do much of anything. You could also give it Stun Spore which helps.

So what do you guys think about Parasect?

Next is Moltres.

Moltres is statistically the best bird and third overall, has the most powerful Fire attack in the game and is usually the main Burner of the game.

With Moltres’ Fire blast, you can 2 hit KO Tauros and 3 hit KO Snorlax. If you get lucky enough to burn either, that makes it even better. Rock slide is rare on Snorlax, and Snorlax’s Hyper beam does just some over half damage. Only the Rocks and Waters (and another Moltres) can resist Moltres’ Fire blast. If you send out Moltres at a good point though, they’ll have to switch to them. Most likely it will be Starmie, and that will require you to switch. However, if Starmie is gone or something, and they choose Rhydon or Golem, they risk getting burned, as well about 33% damage. If they get burned, they get wrecked, and the opponent probably wouldn’t risk that, because that helps make Zapdos better protected.

Now for the disadvantages. Fire blast, Fire blast, Fire blast. It’s too predictable and you’re likely to run out of PP eventually. Moltres also gets beaten by Starmie, Zapdos, the Grounds, Chansey and other Waters, which is lots. Moltres is really short on moves, but here’s some metagaming.

If you can get rid of Starmie, Moltres has potential to become dangerous. Send out Moltres on the opponent. If Starmie is gone, they will likely send out a Rock. Use Reflect during that turn, and then use Substitute. Moltres is tough enough to take a Reflected Rhydon Rock slide, Substitute and still have HP to live. So when the Rock pops out, use Substitute, and afterwards use Fire blast. This gives you one and possibly two chances to burn. So why use Substitute instead of just Fire blast? I have no idea. Moltres is garbage, guilty.

Zapdos’ fourth move

Okay, Drill peck, Thunderbolt and Thunder wave are basically mandatory, and the most common fourth move is Light screen. I’m starting to think, maybe an exception can be made to give it Thunder. Thunder can OHKO Starmie usually, while Thunderbolt always kills in two hits. Thunder has a 67% chance of taking down Starmie. That means if you use Thunder, rather then Thunderbolt, you have two chances to OHKO. With accuracy applied, Thunder has about 50% chance of doing so. If it misses, try again and then if it takes it out, you got just as far as Thunderbolt would have. If Thunder hits, but doesn’t KO, you only did more then Thunderbolt did. If you take it down in one hit, there’s Thunder’s gain, but about as likely to do worse. Actually, if you miss with your first one and don’t KO, you’re in more trouble. Also Thunderbolt has a chance to get a CH in it’s first shot.

Thunder is bad.

New idea. Give it Mimic. Chances are Zapdos will end up Mimicking Rhydon or Golem. You’ll either get Earthquake, Rock slide, or something else. If you get anything other then Earthquake (if you’re playing on Stadium), switch, and nothing is really lost (except for maybe a few hit points on something). If you get Earthquake which can do roughly 33%. Okay, no that won’t work. What if you got Rhydon’s Surf? OHKO, or at least scaring away Rhydon. Wow, a Rhydon switching from Zapdos. This also pushes against my usual Rhydon with Surf. Maybe Mimic is looking a little better now. You will very rarely Mimic anything else, and Rhydon is usually the choice Rock/Ground (although I don’t think so anymore). Mimic vs Light screen? Hmm.

Rhydon vs Golem

I’ve already gone over this before, but here’s some more support for Golem. Send out Zapdos. If the opponent sends out Rhydon, switch to Golem and take a Rock slide. Then begin an Earthquake war, Golem will win with at least 40 HP left. You can also still survive a Zapdos Drill peck after this, so Golem is still good. With their Rhydon down, your Zapdos is fine and dandy. With this and the Surfing Zapdos possibility, Rhydon is starting to look more and more useless. Don’t forget that Golem gets Explosion too.

So those are all my latest “findings”. Can someone answer my questions, or comment on stuffs?

1) Zapdos with Mimic
2) Golem > Rhydon
3) I still want to know who this Mr.K thing is. I read about it on Rusty’s guide on Gamefaqs.
4) Is Parasect useable?
5) How about Moltres?

[GGFan]

All Parasect can really do in standard is spore something, big deal. It can't do anything else. As for your statement on Jolteon:

"I'm just thinking Jolt's Focus energy and speed would be good. I tried it but 2 problems happen."

Focus Energy in RBY is glitched so it doesn't work, on Azures it's better than Zapdos though because Focus Energy practically guarantees that you CH every turn. Additionally, since multi-hit moves are also glitched in that they hit for a lot more damage than they're supposed to, that's another reason to use Jolteon over Zapdos.

But nobody really uses Azures anymore so Zapdos is better. Maybe in Stadium it's a different story but still, Zapdos has better defenses anyway and has a ground immunity.

"What about CounterZam and Golem vs Rhydon? And while we're at it Tauros vs Snorlax."

I dont like CounterZam that much, if Tauros CHs it, it might get OHKOd, plus it's a one time move basically. I like Reflect better, plus it can let it survive a Snorlax Selfdestruct. I prefer Golem to Rhydon due to being able to explode and beating Rhydon one on one.

[samthedigital]

I dont like CounterZam that much, if Tauros CHs it, it might get OHKOd, plus it's a one time move basically. I like Reflect better, plus it can let it survive a Snorlax Selfdestruct. I prefer Golem to Rhydon due to being able to explode and beating Rhydon one on one.

You didn't mention Seismic Toss Alakazam, and that makes him a great starter. Probably one of the best too since it gives the person a cool advantage: Usually if you don't sleep right away you get to sleep later. Sleeping things later is more dangerous as sleeping say Tauros is a bigger thing than sleeping Alakazam. I mention Seismic Toss because it is the ideal move as a starter because when Exeggutor/Jynx is fully paralyzed Seismic Toss is the ideal move to have.


As for the topic starter...

Stadium is much different from normal RBY. Substitute and things like that become much more effective since paralysis and other things don't go through it. Sleep doesn't affect it as much.

This isn’t being compared to anything, but just a thought. Why not swap Seismic toss for Counter? Okay, so Psychic isn’t as good on other Psyshic types, but if the opponent will Recover or Softboiled, wouldn’t it be best to at least try for either a critical hit or lowering special, or better yet, switch? Seismic toss, there is no hope. Now with Counter, it may be the solution to beating Tauros and Snorlax. Let’s try it out.

It is the luck factor. If I am starting out against Exeggutor and I want Exeggutor to sleep me why do I want to switch out to let Exeggutor sleep something else? If Alakazam is going to get slept anyway doing more damage is better than doing less damage.

Going over all of the above, Jynx is looking like the best one. Exeggutor gets to Sleep and Stun, but most people will keep their sleeping one out, predicting Exeggutor. Gengar has the nicest after effects, but again, 60% is not as reliable as the other moves. I would say Jynx is the best, but Exeggutor can probably cause the most damage afterwards, as well as Exploding. If you are using your sleeper mostly for actually putting the opponent to sleep, use Jynx.

If I have Gengar he pulls off a sleep 2/3rds of the time against anything slower than him that is trying to sleep him (if you calculate the long term miss chance of other sleep moves not including spore the raw chance of Hypnoses hitting before the other Pokemon hits converges into 2/3rds). Jynx may pull off the sleep more accurately, but that does not translate to sleeping the Pokemon more often. For raw sleeping power Gengar is the best because he does it the most often. If you want to compare the rest of the game it is Blizzard versus explosion. That is a battle that is slightly arguable, but usually STAB blizzard Jynx isn't as effective as Gengar's Explosion possibilities.

I think Recover has very strong points on why it should be used on Starmie, but I believe my Starmie’s moveset is better. Although Blizzard may be effective against less then Recover, you have to avoid many luck based conditions. Therefore, my Starmie has Thunder wave, Blizzard, Thunderbolt and Surf.

What do you plan on using Starmie for? With Recover Starmie has raw switch in power that it doesn't have without it. It makes a great switchin to Tauros. Without that Starmie loses much of its usability. Having switch in power with Starmie is arguably the reason to use it. If not I'd use Lapras because Lapras does more raw damage to everything. Being able to Thunder Wave alone isn't giving Starmie an edge over STAB Blizzard.

Maybe with Agility? But then if Dragonite does get knocked out, the opponent isn’t paralyzed.

Agility and Wrap is a gamble, but if you win out (which isn't terribly unlikely) it's going to cripple your opponent. You downgrade the set too much.

As for Slayer:

Cons: Slow, weak defense.

If you are going to rate the two you wouldn't say that really. Their defenses aren't that different with respect to all the HP Snorlax has (HP is a defensive stat, and it should therefore be counted when saying a Pokemon's defensive stats are bad). The difference is speed vs. exploding. This fight (for TA purposes) is usually a strait out tie as using them both is usually the best way to go in the first place.